Advice on using flash for forest birds

Confession time: I am a birder who takes photographs, not a photographer who likes birds! So, when it comes to the technical side of things, I am quite ignorant.

Second confession - I prefer not to use flash if possible, because natural lighting looks better.

BUT - sometimes, it's flash or no picture! This is where I need help.

I have a Canon 7D, a 100-400mm Canon L lens and the 530EXII Speedlight. I don't use a tripod. My problem is that I either overflash or underflash - I rarely get the exposure correct so that the bird looks right.

Any tips? Later I can post some examples of my pics if it would help to know what I am doing wrong.

Thanks

Dave

1. you said you take birds photos but you doesn't like them?

2. agreed with you, not only if you used flash the birds looks unatural but also the color tend to be different.

3. what kind of situation you are trying to say, the bird that perch or BIF?

4. Why don't use a tripod?

5. flash can be tune to suite the situation. you can try flash compensation by setting <1/3 etc or multi storbe mode <1/64.



rgd,


Jeffery

Dave, usually if I need to use flash due to whatever the reason, I set them on TTL mode and rear curtain setup. this way I can get decent exposure with ambient light included.

another thing is, I add a Stofen to diffuse my flash, so that it won't give the steel eye effect... but the flash range would become very limited up to 5m I think

maybe you can consider a flash extender. I haven't got that, then I cannot describe. maybe Troylim care to share his flash setting.

Hi Jeffery

Thanks for taking time to find out more.

To answer your questions:
1. Generally, if I use flash, I don't like the results, coz the flash makes the birds look flat and unnatural (probably coz I'm not using it correctly)
3. Perched
4. A number of reasons. As I said - I'm a birder who takes pictures, not a photographer who likes birds. So when I'm in the forest I don't like carrying a heavy tripod. Also, I like taking pics of the shyer birds, and I find that I miss too many opportunities if I have to set the tripod down before taking the photo. Without a tripod, getting the photo is much quicker.

5. This is what I need to learn about. I've never tried multi-strobe mode.

I'll post some pics and then maybe you can tell me what I was doing wrong!

I found Wildlife photography are the most challenging, birds photograpy are one of them, without patience, passion is very tough. because most of the time we get nothing.

Using flash shooting a bird are tough, they are skittish, color tend become unatural. the most important you might scare the hell of them away. I think most of the birders use flash to fill up the shadows areas not direct flashing. so you need to learn and understand your gear. the distant between the subject and a factor too.

I feel your frustration because I'm a short lens birder too. using a tripod are the best to overcome these problem not to mention using the right method to click your shutter button. you must understand the comfort distant between your subject, if you are at the nearest comfort zone and lay down your tripod at these point your subject might fly away. I normally place my tripod down before going nearer.

posting some photos can help us to understand more of your problem.



Jeffery

[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/img] Here's a very very confiding bird which took no notice of me at all, and stayed at the same perch for literally days! So it gave me lots of chance to experiment, but I still didn't end up with a satisfactory shot!

This pic was taken using ETTL mode, ISO800 at 1/60 sec. I find that it is soft and lacking in detail. (Struggling to upload more than one pic per post!)...

[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/img] Detail from the same shot - you can see that it's soft. I don't think it's camera shake.

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This was taken using the flash in Manual mode, 50mm and under-exposed by 1/3 of a stop.

what f-stop you used? Sorry because these forum can't read exif data from the photos.

[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/img] Detail of the same. ISO200 and 1/60 sec. Nice and sharp, lots of detail, but way overflashed.

Sorry - all f5.6.

[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/img]

This was using the same settings as the previous one, but slanting the flash head slightly upwards and using the reflector to bounce light towards the bird. A bit better, but the flash was still too strong.

btw! i think your flash didn't fire on the #1 photo.

your 2nd photo looks sharper because your flash freeze your movement.

a.flash are too strong
b. you can see what I mean the color changes (unatural) using flash by comparing the 1st & 2nd images.

how far away between you & the subject?

[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/img]

Detail of the same shot. In the end, this was about the best I could manage.

But the point is, this bird was exceptionally accommodating! I fired off over 100 shots over 2 days just to try to learn which settings were best. Most birds only give the chance for a few shots. So - how do I get it right first time?

Help much appreciated!

Dave

[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/img]

Ah yes, Jeffrey, you're right. Here's one where the flash did go off (ETTL)

Dave

JKC wrote:btw! i think your flash didn't fire on the #1 photo.

your 2nd photo looks sharper because your flash freeze your movement.

a.flash are too strong
b. you can see what I mean the color changes (unatural) using flash by comparing the 1st & 2nd images.

how far away between you & the subject?

Really very close. Not good at estimating distance, but this is an uncropped image:

[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.][/img]

So less than 10m.

you were very lucky this bird perch there for you, the Grey Headed Canary flycatcher normally perch high.

anyway! did you notice the back ground of your images are darker? that is because the shutter closed before it can capture more light into the image sensor.

when you are taking these shots you also faces slow flash recharge right? meaning some shots the flash did not fire.

Yes, looks like they are taken at dead of night!

And yes, slow recharge.

So... how to correct all these issues???

Thanks

D

I think you are between the lens minimum focus distant 6'. #1 might due to off focus, hand shake under that slow 1/50 shutter speed.

my advice.
1. your 7D can handle pretty good high ISO, I have friend used your same setup. I do notice they can used up to ISO1000 without much noise problem. maybe you can try to push your ISO higher to get faster shutter speed. (faster shutter speed reduce chances of hand shake and also even you have a steady tripod the trees and birds tend to move by wind)

2. when you come to these close encounter with your subject. tune down your flash. you can either used ETTL than use flash compensation mode and reduce the flash output start from <2/3 or you can used multi strobe function by pressing the mode button on your flash, to use these mode you have to press the mode button until you see the multi mode figure flashing on your flash LCD screen. you can use the dialler to change the flash output from <1/128.

last time I used flash also but after finding the color unaturally. I stop using flash. used tripod are the best of all. you don't need to buy big tripod like big gunners. you just need to know what kind of tripod to buy.

1. buy a tripod head that comes with plate clamp.
2. buy a longer plate to balance your gear centre weight.
3. series 3 tripod are good enough for your setup
4. buy a shutter release cord.
5. used mirror lock-up fucntion when using very slow shutter speed




Jeffery

Hi Jeffery

Somehow I find the noise at ISO1000 very high on my 7D (see the first shot I posted which is only ISO800).

Secondly, as explained earlier, I don't want to use a tripod when birding in the forest (though it's different when I am using a hide) I do have a tripod and remote shutter release, but they just cramp my style too much!

But thanks for the advice on different flash settings. I will experiment further (once my gear comes back from servicing).

And thanks very much for giving me the benefit of your time and experience!

Dave

By the way, when you talk about 'series 3 tripod' , which brand are you thinking of?

Thanks

Dave

digdeep1962 wrote:Hi Jeffery

Somehow I find the noise at ISO1000 very high on my 7D (see the first shot I posted which is only ISO800).

Secondly, as explained earlier, I don't want to use a tripod when birding in the forest (though it's different when I am using a hide) I do have a tripod and remote shutter release, but they just cramp my style too much!

But thanks for the advice on different flash settings. I will experiment further (once my gear comes back from servicing).

And thanks very much for giving me the benefit of your time and experience!

Dave

hahaha is actually depend on individual expectation. if you want the best out of best than no one can escape from sacrifice to carry heavier gear even I have a back problem.

btw! the tripod series-3 I mention as below and is just a example you can get cheaper tripod but make sure the tripod head must be plate clamping type.

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and you are welcome



Jeffery

Fuyoh!

Too bad my birthday has just gone!

Thanks

Dave

Your flash unit shall not be align with your lens have to be side way, this is why you are getting funny color on the eye. Using the build-in unit is not recommended.

Try using TTL -2.3EV (fill flash), this will ensure over expose is minimised.

I have not been using flash for the pass 2 years because of the un-neutral color. Try to play around with the "+" or "-" ev, you will get good result even without flash.

Cheers,

Ng