Hodgson's Hawk Cuckoo 棕腹杜鹃

Got this at Cuckoo bird at Singapore today

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where is ur ruddy?

adolphkhor wrote:where is ur ruddy?

Wait！ Still under process, coming soon

Cant see much of the belly, could this be a Malaysian Hawk-Cuckoo instead? Judging from the streaks on the breast, looked much like adult Malaysian. Any frontals?

nice exposure oo...

I don't want to see the ruddy.... not dare to see lah.....

jytou wrote:Cant see much of the belly, could this be a Malaysian Hawk-Cuckoo instead? Judging from the streaks on the breast, looked much like adult Malaysian. Any frontals?

This one ok?

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erm.... I still think look very Malaysian, but honestly, younger Malaysian/Hodgson's can sometimes barely be separable in the field....... and most field guides dont give very detail notes on this recent split group.

But the back showed that it probably is moving into adulthood and still so streaky on the belly, could had been a sub-adult Malaysian?

I guess we need to wait more experts/sifus to come in and give their comments.....

Wah! good capture but expecting you ruddy KF.

BENCYF wrote:Wah! good capture but expecting you ruddy KF.

Coming! Coming!!!

jytou wrote:erm.... I still think look very Malaysian, but honestly, younger Malaysian/Hodgson's can sometimes barely be separable in the field....... and most field guides dont give very detail notes on this recent split group.

But the back showed that it probably is moving into adulthood and still so streaky on the belly, could had been a sub-adult Malaysian?

I guess we need to wait more experts/sifus to come in and give their comments.....

Actually i'm always confuse with the ID for both of them too [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]But according Singapore birder which i meet today, they said this is Hodgson Hawk [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

YKH wrote:

jytou wrote:erm.... I still think look very Malaysian, but honestly, younger Malaysian/Hodgson's can sometimes barely be separable in the field....... and most field guides dont give very detail notes on this recent split group.

But the back showed that it probably is moving into adulthood and still so streaky on the belly, could had been a sub-adult Malaysian?

I guess we need to wait more experts/sifus to come in and give their comments.....

Actually i'm always confuse with the ID for both of them too [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]But according Singapore birder which i meet today, they said this is Hodgson Hawk [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

erm, does the Singaporean birder had idea on Malaysians? In the past, both are called Hodgson's Hawk Cuckoo under the same species. I had seen a rather experienced birder telling me I was wrong, what I saw and blurred out as Striated Swallow does not exist, there is only Red-rumped Swallow there, but he probably didnt know that the resident form had already split out as Striated Swallow and probably would further split out as Rufous-bellied soon?

So, I think is better safe to know what taxon your Singaporean friend is referring to and if he is aware of the current potential suspects. The answer of asking: "What do you think this is?" and "Do you think this is Hodgson's, Malaysian or any other Hawk-cuckoo?" could give you very different answers as the mind set of the answerer was different.

jytou wrote:

YKH wrote:

jytou wrote:erm.... I still think look very Malaysian, but honestly, younger Malaysian/Hodgson's can sometimes barely be separable in the field....... and most field guides dont give very detail notes on this recent split group.

But the back showed that it probably is moving into adulthood and still so streaky on the belly, could had been a sub-adult Malaysian?

I guess we need to wait more experts/sifus to come in and give their comments.....

Actually i'm always confuse with the ID for both of them too [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]But according Singapore birder which i meet today, they said this is Hodgson Hawk [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

erm, does the Singaporean birder had idea on Malaysians? In the past, both are called Hodgson's Hawk Cuckoo under the same species. I had seen a rather experienced birder telling me I was wrong, what I saw and blurred out as Striated Swallow does not exist, there is only Red-rumped Swallow there, but he probably didnt know that the resident form had already split out as Striated Swallow and probably would further split out as Rufous-bellied soon?

So, I think is better safe to know what taxon your Singaporean friend is referring to and if he is aware of the current potential suspects. The answer of asking: "What do you think this is?" and "Do you think this is Hodgson's, Malaysian or any other Hawk-cuckoo?" could give you very different answers as the mind set of the answerer was different.

Ya......maybe you are right, i just ask them this morning and they said Malaysian好像比较大只一点............. Hmm，maybe i should change the ID liao..... But this morning got few shot this fellow again, can you take a look [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

1.
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2.
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3.
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Some examples from OBI, but this is a complicated complex, so ID at OBI cannot be trusted, I had seen at least 1 example from Ulu Kinta was moved from Hodgson's to Malaysian recently:

Malaysian:

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Hodgson's:

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Yeah, some googling lead me to something useful finally:

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Read the last section of this issue of SINAV, there is a good section on identification of this difficult pair, from some observable features, I now vote for the migratory Hodgson's (also known as Whistling) (nisicolor) based on the table presented at the end of this article:

1. White patch on tertials of wings with bars on it, shall only be palish brown with no bars on young Malaysians.

2. Rather longish streaks than roundish, I previously was confused and though its the other way round, it grows longer streaks in adult Malaysians.

3. Signs of rufous on breast beside the black streaks is more likely a feature of the Hodgson's sub-adults than Malaysians, so many samples in OBI could potentially be wrongly labeled?

So, reading through the article, I now hand my vote in for Hodgson's.

jytou wrote:Yeah, some googling lead me to something useful finally:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Read the last section of this issue of SINAV, there is a good section on identification of this difficult pair, from some observable features, I now vote for the migratory Hodgson's (also known as Whistling) (nisicolor) based on the table presented at the end of this article:

1. White patch on tertials of wings with bars on it, shall only be palish brown with no bars on young Malaysians.

2. Rather longish streaks than roundish, I previously was confused and though its the other way round, it grows longer streaks in adult Malaysians.

3. Signs of rufous on breast beside the black streaks is more likely a feature of the Hodgson's sub-adults than Malaysians, so many samples in OBI could potentially be wrongly labeled?

So, reading through the article, I now hand my vote in for Hodgson's.

So, It's Hodgson's Hawk ?

YKH wrote:

jytou wrote:Yeah, some googling lead me to something useful finally:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Read the last section of this issue of SINAV, there is a good section on identification of this difficult pair, from some observable features, I now vote for the migratory Hodgson's (also known as Whistling) (nisicolor) based on the table presented at the end of this article:

1. White patch on tertials of wings with bars on it, shall only be palish brown with no bars on young Malaysians.

2. Rather longish streaks than roundish, I previously was confused and though its the other way round, it grows longer streaks in adult Malaysians.

3. Signs of rufous on breast beside the black streaks is more likely a feature of the Hodgson's sub-adults than Malaysians, so many samples in OBI could potentially be wrongly labeled?

So, reading through the article, I now hand my vote in for Hodgson's.

So, It's Hodgson's Hawk ?

That's my vote la.... see got people want support me or not lor.... hahaha

jytou wrote:

YKH wrote:

jytou wrote:Yeah, some googling lead me to something useful finally:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Read the last section of this issue of SINAV, there is a good section on identification of this difficult pair, from some observable features, I now vote for the migratory Hodgson's (also known as Whistling) (nisicolor) based on the table presented at the end of this article:

1. White patch on tertials of wings with bars on it, shall only be palish brown with no bars on young Malaysians.

2. Rather longish streaks than roundish, I previously was confused and though its the other way round, it grows longer streaks in adult Malaysians.

3. Signs of rufous on breast beside the black streaks is more likely a feature of the Hodgson's sub-adults than Malaysians, so many samples in OBI could potentially be wrongly labeled?

So, reading through the article, I now hand my vote in for Hodgson's.

So, It's Hodgson's Hawk ?

That's my vote la.... see got people want support me or not lor.... hahaha

hahaha!! i support you!!!! Thank you very much!!!

jytou wrote:

YKH wrote:

jytou wrote:Yeah, some googling lead me to something useful finally:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Read the last section of this issue of SINAV, there is a good section on identification of this difficult pair, from some observable features, I now vote for the migratory Hodgson's (also known as Whistling) (nisicolor) based on the table presented at the end of this article:

1. White patch on tertials of wings with bars on it, shall only be palish brown with no bars on young Malaysians.

2. Rather longish streaks than roundish, I previously was confused and though its the other way round, it grows longer streaks in adult Malaysians.

3. Signs of rufous on breast beside the black streaks is more likely a feature of the Hodgson's sub-adults than Malaysians, so many samples in OBI could potentially be wrongly labeled?

So, reading through the article, I now hand my vote in for Hodgson's.

So, It's Hodgson's Hawk ?

That's my vote la.... see got people want support me or not lor.... hahaha

JYTou, May I ask why do Hodgson's Hawk always been spotted in Singapore & (bypass Malaysia)? Any known place where this Hodgson's Hawk come back year after year?

cactus400D wrote:

jytou wrote:

YKH wrote:

jytou wrote:Yeah, some googling lead me to something useful finally:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Read the last section of this issue of SINAV, there is a good section on identification of this difficult pair, from some observable features, I now vote for the migratory Hodgson's (also known as Whistling) (nisicolor) based on the table presented at the end of this article:

1. White patch on tertials of wings with bars on it, shall only be palish brown with no bars on young Malaysians.

2. Rather longish streaks than roundish, I previously was confused and though its the other way round, it grows longer streaks in adult Malaysians.

3. Signs of rufous on breast beside the black streaks is more likely a feature of the Hodgson's sub-adults than Malaysians, so many samples in OBI could potentially be wrongly labeled?

So, reading through the article, I now hand my vote in for Hodgson's.

So, It's Hodgson's Hawk ?

That's my vote la.... see got people want support me or not lor.... hahaha

JYTou, May I ask why do Hodgson's Hawk always been spotted in Singapore & (bypass Malaysia)? Any known place where this Hodgson's Hawk come back year after year?

Technically speaking.... many birds end their migration at Singapore, dowan do sea passing to Sumatra or further Java where it stays over a longer period until it head back, like many such uncommon passage migrants, such as Hodgson's Hawk Cuckoo and recent Ruddy Kingfisher also, and a list to go. Of course, if they do sea passing, this is the last stop and probably they will stay longer to refuel before the dangerous sea passing, even massive OHB will be drown if they does not have energy to pass over the straits of Malacca, so sea passing is not something you just do (I guess!).

Of coz, the very dominant reason behind these must had been the density of birders in Singapore compared to Malaysia!!! For instance, you will hear more odd bird sightings from well watched area in Malaysia then other parts, say Penang and KL seemed to have higher understanding in bird occurrence then many other places due to their dense population of birders. Ipoh is not that bad as well but unfortunately in Ipoh most birders would keep sighting a secret or only reveal after alert is turned off to avoid the over stress of birds especially like what happened to Singapore, where the same bird will be seriously disturbed by load of birders and bird photographers. You may say that Perak birders may be more selfish but in fact more bird friendly as we think of birds first. However, many of us are still happy to contribute in the knowledge we learn of some species but some are not so reluctant to share. I am sure there are many Hodgson's in Malaysia, a birder friend of mine saw it in Ipoh and kept in the secret list, not made public, and I dont think it was that rare anyway.

Also note that Peninsular Malaysia is a lot wider and had a lot more higher elevation, the main range path is one major bird migration path as well, that's why many of these migrants are flying through a path that is not well populated, although some points are well birded, but the frequency of these sites being checked are simply less frequent then checking your nearest Singaporean birdspot if you stays in Singapore or even in JB. And since most of them are on the move, so they may only be seen in 1 occasion or max a few days, I had seen Ruddy Kingfisher photos from Fraser's Hill recently and I got a 1 evening view of the Black-backed (Oriental Dwarf) Kingfisher in a drain opposite my house in Ipoh, so they are always there, just that the chance of them meeting the birders at the right time and location is simply lower in Peninsular Malaysia due to our vast area but way too few birders in comparison.

And another fact, which I am not sure if it is true, I find that Singaporean possibly more "kiasu", keeps track better with taxonomical changes than the average Malaysian birders that are a lot less serious in this matter sometimes, resulting in many of them are still calling the local "badia" swallows the Red-rumped Swallow, which continues to result in confusion in some local publications (including Birds of Perak book!), there are also some of these that are simply shut off. I knew a lot of birders who had choose to ignore swifts, waders or any other difficult group, while I am still very bad at waders, babblers, flycatchers and a number of confusing groups, but luckily at least I am getting better with raptors but still struggling hard with tough groups like harriers and Aquilas for example. This result in many people ignoring the recent splits and you won't be surprised to see someone simply labeling Richard's Pipit (luckily this is much reduced over the last few years) or any other recent splits.

So, I conclude all these are factors why you think those migrants that are less regulars are more frequently met at Singapore.